"We did a lot of outreach initially which barely yielded anything. I then started with my own network in the open source and open standards community, like Apache Software Foundation and the Mozilla Foundation. Code quality and collaboration in the communities is quite important for our project.
So we then primarily did look in these organisations for people who were not just able to write code very well, are aware of architectural constraints and can hit the floor running. But also people who are very good in understanding the business requirements and business problems. And all known to be able to work for themselves in small teams.
So we started building on top of the foundations of open source projects like Apache, Tomcat, Cocoon, Mozilla, Firefox. Which meant that a lot of work we didn't have to do from scratch. This got us with an immediate, quick start.
Secondly we licensed the same key P2P technology as Skype used from Joltid."
Did eBay want to be paid in shares to license this?
"There are obviously conversations going on with eBay because they are are the owners of Skype. But you should ask the CEO instead of the CTO."
What were the biggest technical challenges?
"Integrating that much of the code. Make it robust, coping with the realities of the internet, modifying for the aim watching hundreds of millions of people simultaneously in the end.
A lot of time we spent to compression. It takes 10 to 12 hours to compress one our of video. What tremendously helps us is that, instead of using relational data modelling and SQL-based databases, we use a lot of RDF technology or so-called 'semantic web-technology' which basically meant that large part of the system could be build without exactly knowing what kind of data we should store in the system, without knowing exactly how the metadata was structured.
In fact we can even change files in the data we import from big content providers. Because of this RDF nature of the system the content simply flows through and does not really disrupt anything. Large parts of the business principles in the core program, which helps a lot."
Which moments of despair you had last year?
"Simple things, to get fiber and phone lines getting in here from the local phone company KPN, bureaucratic things. But also the logistic things elsewhere, getting co-locations up and running in time. And the user interface is always a source of concern. This takes enormous resources to get it right."
Full secrecy
A lot of secrecy you built around The Venice Project. Even a fake name on this building?
"The reason is mainly because it makes operating much easier. You don't have to explain what we are doing. And we wanted to avoid being bombarded by all kind of would-be partners, investors or vendors who want so sell something, toe make a quick deal. They all want some kind of dialogue, all very nice and dandy but ultimately it keeps you from your work to be done: getting out the piece of software. It helps tremendously not being distracted by all kind of other things.
And secrecy is also needed because of the risks of this projects. At my previous company, in San Francisco, we had several events where just the computers of the management were stolen, so definitely for some kind of information to get. "
Zennstrom and Friis are committed?
"Niklas I meet once every other months for board meetings and corporate guidelines. Janus [who calls during the interview] has one day a week for his 'wild things' and The Venice Project is certainly one of his wild things. So we speak a lot. Janus is especially interested in the user experiences and everything around like the interface and has been making major contributions."
Working from Holland?
"A hundred people report to my engineering department, about 50 are working here in Leiden in the Netherlands [old university city 35 kilometer from Amsterdam], another 25 work for this office on distance, from the UK, Germany etcetera. We have an office in Toulouse with about 25 people, and some little clusters in for example Paris, Milano, Rome."
How do you work?
"It is a distributed development team. Our manners do not differ so much from the time 15 years ago when I was part of the team that developed the Apache webserver. No single person was in the same place at one point. Collaborative work online, that's it. A lot of software today is build in that way, especially when it comes to open software and open standards. You have your communications and review cycles, chats, teleconferences, and lots of e-mail, enormous amounts of e-mail to co-ordinate that."
A lot of open source developers?
"Yes, most of them."
Why do they work for a commercial project like Joost, for good payment, shares in the company?
"In the first place, like with open source, to work with their peers, whom they hugely respect, on complex and fun challenges. There is this strange notion that open source equals working like volunteers. That's just not the case. In the Apache community virtually everyone, is gainfully employed and expected to work on the open source code.
It's crucial that to their respective companies that a piece of code get used and maintained. In the Apache Software Foundation, in the Mozilla Foundation right now they are a lot professionals, earning their living in IT and whose reputation is tied to part of the code they've done and maintain.
Open source development is second to their job, what mostly drives people is to work with other expert programmer from all over the world equally qualified in the technology, communicating on a peer-to-peer basis. That is an enormous amount of fun. That's also what attracts people in this company., Suddenly you can play and work with people face to face also."
But there is a border between fun value and money value?
"We pay everyone a good salary, but if you ask everyone here the main thing that motivates are the peers they can work, sharing the tremendous technology challenges we have to solve."
Main threat for the Venice Project?
"that's our very long shopping list. We need to do many tasks and each of them reasonably well. If any thing of this list fails the whole model might fall apart. Forgetting one aspect or not being able to act on something can bring us in a spiral downwards. For consumers you need content, for content you need adverts, for adverts you need consumers. And all working on our technical platforms."
You still sleep well?
"Yes, having released Joost, having a solid beta out there, and with the data centers up and running there is no way back, it rolls on and on.
The End
[Peter Olsthoorn, February 4, 2007]
*) Dirk-Willem van Gulik (39) brings more than 15 years of internet engineering, consulting and project management experience to The Venice Project. He worked for the Joint Research Center of the European Commission, the United Nations, a number of telecommunications firms, as well as several satellite and space agencies, including the ESA, NASA and NASDA. He participated in standards bodies, such as the IETF and the W3C, on metadata, GIS and Internet standards.
Van Gulik served as president of the Apache Software Foundation for three years and has worked on the Apache Web Server dating back to the early days of the NCSA. Recently, Dirk built the initial engineering team at Covalent Technologies and designed the next generation of its technology. Dirk is also one of the founders of Asemantics, building semantic web applications.
Van Gulik currently lives in Leiden, the Netherlands, and enjoys sailing in summer and playing Lego all year round.
